Sports Forum - RE: The Official Celtic 10/11 Season Thread - Page 2

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/editor-s-picks/profit-and-turnover-fall-as-celtic-debts-rise-1.1048606

see debts have risen after 6 months of misery, or should that be mowbray, spent over £13 million !!

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1Mills, did u trust me on the 2nd leg and bet us to win?? I went and was a cracking atmospere as per but again the 1st goal killed us.

No didn't bet on the Celts for second legs as they were quite strong favourites, can't remember who I had now instead but it was also a winner.

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see debts have risen after 6 months of misery, or should that be mowbray, spent over £13 million !!

I don't think a manager can be blamed on spending the money though, that blame has to lay at the board's door as they have more control financially.

From today's Fiver email from the Guardian

The Queen's Celtic have blamed former manager Tony Mowbray, the economy and Phil Mitchell's crack addiction for financial results that revealed their turnover is 15% down and debts are up £4m.

In fairness without looking into this further, I'd guess that 15% of turnover is more than £4million and therefore that's more than debt has risen so the turnover fall has been more to blame.

www.last.fm/user/1mills

A quick google shows a 15% turnover reduction to £62million so therefore a £10million fall in turnover.

Also states that there were 6,000 less season tickets sold last year.

www.last.fm/user/1mills

Was saying how badly Mowbray did given the board backed him to such an extent, also the money we lost seems to be very similar to the pay off the Manager and his back room team got when they left. This is a good time to ask u accounts chaps, what is the debt currently then?? behind all the smoke and mirrors?

I've just done quick google to see the actual figures, but unfortunately most places are just quoting the "headline" net figures.  Saw this though

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A total of £13.64m was invested in recruiting football personnel, some of which will have been for Tony Mowbray and his management team, while £5.71m was earned from the sale of players
So £2million of that was to bring Mowbray in the first place, possibly more if there was a complete change of the backroom staff, aswell on his appointment?

A quick scan and trying to put into terms that are easy for a layman to understand is difficult.

The accounts show total liabilities of £44million, but that includes £12million deferred income, which I would presume is season tickets and the like so technically debt you are actually interested in would be about £32million.

Total current assets is about £14.5million.


Basically a simplistic explanation of defered income is that it's money you've taken, for sales not yet declared (ie matches not played) so technically you still owe that money to the season ticket holders until the matches are actually played and have taken money in "advance of the sales".

From an accounting perspective it is important, but from what you're thinking of actual debt it shouldn't be a big problem as looks like it's just for the season.

Newcastle big problem was always that.  They basically borrowed money against the next 10years season ticket sales at one point, which is why their debt spiralled so bad as one of their main income sources was being used to pay debts so obviously each year they were relying on the tv money to fund pretty much everything.

www.last.fm/user/1mills

Debt 2008/09 was a miserly £1.85m (which was around 500k more than I posted around 6 months ago and which fowler disagreed with - but has just been re-announced when comparing this years figures) and has risen to a still decent £5.85m. Compared to most UK clubs this is excellent - especially when you consider the country is in recession.

Payoffs for the idiot Mogga and his pals (nearly £4m was paid to terminate contracts early) + the buys he made will be the reason for all lot of the increase.

Things are bright wearing green n white.

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Debt 2008/09 was a miserly £1.85m (which was around 500k more than I posted around 6 months ago and which fowler disagreed with Confused - but has just been re-announced when comparing this years figures) and has risen to a still decent £5.85m. Compared to most UK clubs this is excellent - especially when you consider the country is in recession.

The figures I got before were from the actual accounts on the official Celtic page.

Net debt is the figures you are referring to Ie. the difference between money in the bank, compared to bank loans outstanding.


There is £11.3million bank loans on the balance sheet. But you have £5.5million in the bank or in a quickly cashable asset. So technically if you took your money from the bank account you could pay off your loan so there was only £5.85million owing to banks.

What you also need to consider is your trade creditors that you have to pay within the next year are £15.97 million, whereas your trade debtors to pay to you within the next year are only £6.84million.


Plus if you think about it saying we've got £5.5 million in the bank account (earning no interest probably), but a £11.3million loan paying interest you debt is still £11.3million that your paying interest on.

The fact that they net together to make £5.85million just makes it sound better for accounting terms.

www.last.fm/user/1mills

This item was edited on Tuesday, 17th August 2010, 15:05

I found that last bit regarding loans and money in the bank quite interesting when I noticed it when looking at the accounts mate. They must find the interest on the loan manageable otherwise I would have thought they would transfer a bit of the money in the bank to pay off a chunk of the loan. I always find looking at these institutions annual reports/accounts make interesting reading.

You tend to forget that the cash for players sold comes in in instalments. Not sure that all clubs do this (Leeds and their 15/20/25 year "mortgages" for players which partly led to their downfall are one club who did not) amortalise all parts of incoming players wages/signing on fees etc over the length of the contract.

Whilst no clubs are immune from the current downturn I do think some clubs will weather the storm better than others. Its mostly the oil owners teams doing the spending at the moment. The Milner money might spark a little purchasing/selling by other clubs though.

Just back, good solid performance, fantastic performance from the new swede at the heart of the defence, didnt miss a tackle or header till injury time, the new defensive midfielder got man of the match tho, both fullbacks again not impressing but for me Samaras was again a revelation, I dont know what they are feeding him lately but he is working his socks of, he didnt give their defence a moments peace, thru the middle, dropping deep and on both flanks. WBA seemingly bid £2.5 million for Fortune and i would snap their hands off even tho it is a £1.3 million loss, as he is out of place wide right and if he isnt good enough to shift our No 1 striker then its time to go and tbh he hasnt been good enough.

Mon the Hoops